Storytelling as Resistance: Preserving Palestinian Identity with Jenan Matari

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Mahaban, welcome back to Siddhi Stories, a podcast amplifying the voices and celebrating the achievements of Palestinian women. I'm your host, Leila, and today I'm beyond excited to introduce Shinan Matari. She is an author, activist, and the founder of Zaytun Publicity, a platform dedicated to amplifying Palestinian and Arab voices. Chinan is also a powerhouse on social media, using her large following to advocate for justice. Shinan, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Thanks for having me. I got unexpectedly emotional listening to you're interested.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Are you okay?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Yeah, you know, it's been a hard, hard like 24 hours.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yeah. I love seeing her women like just do awesome things. Remember to become the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah, I totally understand that. It's been so upsetting seeing all the new videos and pictures coming out the last 24 hours. And just really keep reminding ourselves that this is exactly why it's so important for us to share our stories, especially the stories of our ancestors, to really keep that going. I appreciate your vulnerability right off the bat. I'm usually like the crier in every episode. Thank you so much for being so passionate about what you do and translating that over to also what other women do. So I really appreciate that. And that's literally what this whole podcast and this whole platform is about. So before we dive into your story, we love starting off with a city-inspired question. So what is one word to describe your city? Oh my gosh, that's such a hard, hard thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

One word to describe my city and my tithe. They are they are powerhouses, and I don't know that they know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Mm-hmm. I love that. I love that because I that's how I feel about my grandmothers. And I don't think enough people like highlight that. And I don't think they themselves even highlight that. I think they're so in survival mode and like go, go, go mode that they don't even stop to realize how much they've done and how much they've accomplished. I'm so excited to hear a little bit more about your city and your Tieta later on as we go on. Let's take it back to the beginning. Can you share a little bit about your background? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

So I am first generation born American to my Palestinian family. My parents moved here and they immigrated from Jordan and Brazil when they were very young. So I feel like I've learned actually in conversations and in other interviews that I don't think I realized how much my parents took the brunt of that diaspora trauma, like real first generation experience that a lot of my friends with older parents kind of experienced themselves. So I'm grateful that my my trauma experience was a little bit less. Being raised as Palestinians in the United States. But yeah, I mean, my my journey has been something I've been very open about. I always knew that we were Palestinian, but I never really understood the weight of what that identity meant and like what it came with and the power that it holds, and also the heartbreak that kind of comes with growing up in diaspora with that identity. My family looks fairly white for the most part. So we flew under the radar for a while.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Especially being on the East Coast. I feel like everyone just thinks you're Italian or Greek. And my last name is a vowel.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

So like we just ran with it, you know? Yeah. So yeah, so we, you know, we were we were taught to take advantage of that for safety purposes. Um, yeah, it was, you know, we're we're proud in the house, we celebrate our holidays, people know like who we are, where we come from, but that was like the extent of what we shared about what it was to be Palestinian. And what Bellad are you from? My mom's family is from El Uts, the old city. And then, you know, I have I have family still there in in Ramallah. And that's actually my mom's maternal family. Her paternal family, my Jeddah, is from Rain Kadam, and then my dad's family is from a village called Betanan.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah. So me and Janan are from the same ballet. Um, but I heard that there's an interesting story with that. I think I saw once on your Instagram post that was your dad originally from a different ballet and then like migrated down to Betanan?

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Okay, so I recently learned, I don't know if it's like my family specifically, but there are some people from Dar al Matari that actually come from El Khalil and then they came to Betanan.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

But that's like recent information that I I haven't even had the energy to like think.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah. Yeah, we gotta dive into that family tree a little bit more. Yeah. So you founded the Zaytun Publicity to help Palestinian and Arab voices gain visibility. Can you tell us a little bit more about that mission and the impact that it's had so far?

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Yeah. Um, that's a really cool project that I started in 2021. My whole career experience has been in public relations um and marketing and events. And in 2021, when everything was happening was Shia, I was at um, you know, a small PR agency um that was trying to uh the word that they used was temper my voice. They they wanted me to temper my messaging specifically about Palestine. They were cool with everything else. Like I was very vocal about Black Lives Matter and you know, speaking out against that dude in office that's there right now. And, you know, standing up for Muslim voices, but when it came to Palestine, they weren't cool with it. And I wasn't cool with that. So I decided to leave. And after leaving, I realized how much of a disparity there is in who gets public relations services and who gets attention from the media in the business world when it comes to, you know, founders with a cool story that have a product. It's very white dominated, it's very white generational wealth dominated. If you don't have generational wealth, it's really geared towards people who can fundraise and gather money fairly quickly. Um, and as we know, like from statistics, people who make the most amount of investment into a company are white men. It's very hard for women to get investments for their company, specifically brand and black women. And so I decided that I wanted to use my skills to kind of bridge that gap and make it more of an equitable industry over the last three years. That has definitely shifted a bit. We got some really cool like PR campaigns for Palestinian brands along the way, but I, in having this company and in the genocide that's been happening the last two years and 80 years, two years on screen for the world, I realized the importance of social media. I decided to kind of shift to focusing on influencer campaigns and social media marketing and storytelling for the same brands that I was working with in the PR space. Because I I want our community to understand the investment of having control of your brand story. Because I think the difference in social media, you know, campaigns and traditional public relations campaigns with mainstream media outlets, getting your story into New York Times or a Vogue or something, you can only control the story so much. And when you have your own platform, you're in total control of the story that is attached to you as a founder and you as a brand, you as an influencer. Um, so that's been our focus last couple of years. We're an all-Palestinian team. We're five people now, all Palestinian.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

That's great. Thank you. We've got some really cool clients and we work with really cool people. And I'm just really honored to be able to offer these services to people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

How does that work? Do you pick the clients or do the clients come to you?

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Thankfully, it's all been like word of mouth that people find us um on their own and and they reach out. Um we do an initial meet the team kind of call and figure out what they're in need of and if it's something that we can offer. We try to keep everything in-house. We have our own STEMs operation lead, we have a community engagement lead, we have a researcher, we have a graphic designer, media specialists. We try to offer everything um that you could possibly need to, you know, have a successful campaign as a founder or a brand. And yeah, so it's been it's been really cool. I'm really grateful for all the people that it's connected us to.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I think we need more more people like you to highlight and showcase like the amazing work that so many Palestinian and Arab people are like doing. I think we have a hard time with that, honestly, as like a society, as a culture and a community. We don't like to show off what we're doing. And it's like not showing off. It's like putting your voice out there and like letting like the your hard work speak for itself. It's so nice to have somebody like you who's this was your background, your education, your professional like life to help them, you know, showcase that and put their brands out further. Because, like you said, there's so many white older men that this is like kind of their whole day-to-day, and they go to fraternities together and then they go to these like big corporations and they all help each other out in that way. So it's so nice that you know you've created that space to be able to do that as well. Um, and as you said, you have a really powerful presence on social media and you use your platform to educate, advocate, and connect with people worldwide. How has social media shaped your activism and storytelling?

SPEAKER_02 9:20

That's a good question. I think it made me realize how far and quickly I can spread a message that is beneficial for our community and for our cause. It's a very fine line between like that and also like getting addicted to like engagement numbers for a while at the height of everything that was happening in Gaza, which seems to have resurfaced, it would make me so anxious to see numbers dropping. Um, and that could be anything from people losing interest, being shadow banned, suppression of Palestinian voices, which we now know that there's like hard evidence of that happening. But I remember just, you know, if I didn't get good engagement one day, I was like, people stop caring. They don't care about Palestine anymore. They don't want to hear about Gaza. How do I get their attention back? What do we have to do to make sure that people are staying focused and just understanding the systems that are put up against us so that you don't have that reach, right? So it gets harder every day to keep people's attention. And specifically, like to keep people's attention on a genocide is a really hard thing to do. So, you know, I I recognize the power that I have on my platform and I'm grateful for it. And I just continue to like encourage other people to build their own and and let their voices be heard because what I've learned over the last two years is that one, there's a space for it because we made that space happen. Um, two, people are are looking for it. And this isn't about like giving people grace. Like I think we should always do that. But at the same time, I know that after two years, it's a very hard thing to do to like keep giving people this grace and the benefit of the doubt. But every day I am reminded that like white America is absolutely distracted from all of the things that we know to be true and the things that we see. And I'm grateful for those reminders because it reminds me to keep going. It reminds me that my message isn't falling on deaf ears that there is somebody that is going to hear what I have to say and it's going to make an impact, you know, in their life and change. It's gonna be like a mentality shift for them. And so it's just it's a good reminder of why we have to keep going. People aren't exposed to the same things that we are, no matter how long it's been, right? And then I remind myself of how many things are happening in the world that I'm actually not aware of.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah. Yeah, totally. It works both ways.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah. I'm trying to tell people we always have to do better. We just always have to keep pushing forward no matter what the obstacles are.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

And also not stopping just when kind of things settle down, like when there is a ceasefire, for example. Our work is not done, things change overnight. The same way our brothers and sisters in Ghaza are not resting easy. We shouldn't either, you know, in the comfort of our home, in the safety of our home. So, was there a particular moment when you knew you wanted to dedicate your career to storytelling and advocacy? Where did that shift happen?

SPEAKER_02 12:07

That happened in 2021 when I left that agency. I I realized that uh Palestine was my line. I think in my career, you know, I was in corporate America for 12 years.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

And that's a that's a long time. You did your service, you did your time, GNN.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

It was a lot. I definitely had to betray parts of myself to save that world.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

You for sure had to code switch. Absolutely. Can you share how that was? Sorry, I know I asked another question, but can you share how that was? Because I just can imagine a visual of you zipping up your personality and your identity every day getting onto the bus to go to New York. Can you walk us through what that was for you?

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah, there were there were certain things that I had to bite my tongue about. Um, I've also found myself focusing more on my Muslim identity than my Palestinian identity. And it was because people around me were more comfortable with that. It was more like mainstream and cool to like have the Muslim friend, but I was like the cool, trendy Muslim friend who like wasn't too religious and said I was more spiritual than I was religious, and made everybody feel comfortable and cracked the jokes that were like, you know, a little bit of a dig to who I am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

I'm sure you got the you're not like all the other Muslims I know comment. And it's just like that's not a compliment. I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

And then I threw up. And that was actually one of one of the pieces of content that I decided to make to get people to understand that choosing the side of Zionism in this context, in any context, but like in the context of Gaza, is not normal, they would use their other Arab friends or their other brown or Muslim friends as a reason to not be all in for Palestine. And I was like, actually, I made a point to make a video about this that if you have an Arab or Palestinian or Muslim friend in your life and they are not speaking the way that I am, because I am not the exception, that it's because you have made it clear that you're not a safe space for those thoughts. But every single one of us is on the same page. Maybe there's a few that are exception. But the majority of us think like me. They say the things that I am saying to you publicly in their private spaces. And the reason why you're not hearing it is because you're not a safe space for them. Um, and I remember that one doing really, really well and like shifting some perspective. I don't want to be the exception. I've lost a lot of and I use the word lost because it took me a long time to realize it's not a loss, but it's still something that I feel angry or hurt about from time to time. I have lost people in my life and have let go of people in my life because I no longer wanted to be the exception for them. And it was because of Palestine. Again, I when I was focusing on being like the cool American Muslim, you know, everybody was cool with it. Everybody wanted to be friends, everybody wanted to let us know that, you know, they had a special uh dish at their party for us to eat that was had no pork. They wanted us to know that we should feel comfortable in their spaces. But the second that the Palestinian identity came out, all of that went away. And so I just decided one day that I was not going to do that anymore. I wasn't going to accept it. That's a hard thing to also do for your personal life, right? It's like get rid of people that you felt you built community with that you could trust and spent so much time and energy and like the energy that you have to put into people to get them to feel comfortable around you is not something that I would wish on anyone. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

We talk a lot about liberation, but we also have to liberate ourselves as well. And so we have to be okay with this idea of letting these friends go. Because it's like, were they really ever your friends if they didn't fully understand who you were to your core and fully accept that to begin with? So I think as sad as it is, I think you come out a lot stronger in your own identity. And there's just a lot of freedom that comes with liberating that ideal for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Absolutely. That was part of that question that you asked about when I decided I wanted Palestine to be my work. Um, I had realized that in that 12 years of this corporate America career, I had sacrificed so much of who I envisioned myself to be, in particular, how I wanted to be a mother. My mom was always there for everything. She was home when we were little, but still worked. And then, like as we got older and and more involved in school sports, like she worked longer hours, but she was everything revolved around what we needed from her. And, you know, she was the parent that was there for school drop-off and school pickup and drived us to our sports, you know, practices during the week. I was giving up so much of that plan that I had had to like be like my mom when I became a mom that I was oddly okay with. Cause I was like, it's okay. I'm gonna work really hard now till 11 p.m. every night when my kids are little and be exhausted because it'll be better when they're older. I kept just gaslighting myself into accepting all that, you know. And then when the Palestine stuff happened, I was like, I found my line. This is not happening anymore. That was part of the reason for launching Zaytune was dedicating that work, my skills and my career and my degree to helping our people, but also making my own hours as my own boss and being the type of mom that I wanted to be. Arguably, I think I'm working even more now than my terms.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Yeah, yeah, I know. That's so funny because it's like when you when you do something for yourself, you come into it with the ideal of I'm gonna be able to make my own hours and work class and spend more time with my kids. And it's like actually you're working probably even more because it's so personal to you and you're doing all these different roles, yeah, and you want to do it and you feel passionate about it, but no, I'm glad that you know you're able to make something for yourself where you can be your true self within the work that you do. And so speaking of family, um, how do you feel your family's history has shaped your understanding of your Palestinian identity?

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Um, I think it's completely shaped it. I mean, I learned how to find pride and find my voice as a Palestinian by learning about my family's history. My grandfather tells me stories of pre and post-Nekba. And this is my my maternal grandfather. Unfortunately, my maternal grandfather passed away.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Um sorry for your loss ago now.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Yeah, thank you, I'll and there was always a language barrier because I'm not fluent in Arabic and CD refused to speak English, which now I don't blame him. I understand my life. Um and so I never got those stories firsthand from my dad's dad. And so I cherish them so much more than I think I would have had I gotten everybody's story when I was younger when I get them from my mom's dad. And I'm so grateful for it. It just makes me want to like dig deeper and learn more. And there's also a part of me that wants to help our elders heal a little bit. I remember in 2022 I interviewed my Thetan Jidah, and I made a family-shared album, and I uploaded everything, and my mom was watching it, and she started crying because she was like, I've never heard these stories before. I asked my grandfather about what his life was like in Palestine before the Nekbah, what his favorite thing to do was, what his school was like. Um, you know, and then even leading up to them being expelled from Ain Gadam, he was telling these incredible stories, like things that like movies are made of, you know, and about how like what they did and what they sacrificed and what they gave away to try and defend their village, and then eventually coming to the realization at the end of the day, we're farmers, we don't have weapons, we don't have defense forces, we don't have funding from Western Imperial to defend this. So do you stay alive and flee, or do you try and fight with your body? And um, so his family decided, decided, whatever that means, you know, his family fled um in order to stay alive. We talk about generational trauma all the time, but we don't talk about generational healing enough. You know, my grandfather who had to hold these stories in for 77 years, being able to tell it in my mom at 55 years old, listening to it for the first time and understanding why she had the type of childhood that she had as that like technical first generation immigrant in her family. Everybody's on this healing journey together, right? Like I can't stress the importance of asking our elders to share their stories with us. Even if it's not, even if it's three hours of like an absolute nothing recording, there will always be something in what they have to say that is like powerful and it matters, and it will help somebody like in your lineage um heal a little bit from like the trauma that's passed down.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Totally. That's so powerful, and that's literally one of the reasons, not one of it's the entire inspiration behind this podcast is exactly that. I have always been the grandchild that, you know, asks a ton of questions to my grandparents, especially to my grandmothers. And I loved hearing about their life, their stories, their triumphs, their joy. I just always wanted to know more. I had this ideal for this podcast actually after my paternal grandmother passed away two years ago, because I felt like I didn't get to hear enough. And see, I told you I get emotional in everyone. Where are they? With my maternal grandmother, Sati Harima, the one that you know, she was always so vocal. She had no problem about being recorded. You know, I think it's the American in her. She didn't shy away from the camera and stuff. So there was literally two years where I had this idea and I said to myself, every time I'm gonna go to New Jersey, when I go back home and I visit, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna record with my grandmother. I I started the process of it, but like I there was still so many more questions and so many other stories that I wanted to ask her about. But I just never got to finish like the recording process with her. After she passed away in September, I got so upset with myself because I had this opportunity to hold on to these stories and not just make it something that I know, but to make it for something that I share it with everyone else and to also inspire other people to sit down and share and hear their stories because you know there's so many times that I've been in the process of recording, and some of my guests they have a whole laundry list of stories from their grandmothers, and then other ones, they're like, actually, I don't know about that. Oh my God, I'm gonna literally go home right now and call my grandmother and I'm gonna find out that story. And so it really inspired us to sit down and cherish our elders and really hear these powerful stories because, like you said, sometimes our parents don't even know them. And so we literally have this whole generation before us that are sadly now passing away and we don't even have those stories. And if their own kids don't even know these stories, how are we going to hear them as well then? I really encourage everyone to go home and do that. And I'm so glad that you have already begun that process of doing that for your own family. One of the things we really focus on city stories is the celebrating the connections between generations and how those who came before us really shape who we are today. Can you share with us a little bit about your city and your teta? Um, kind of just give us like their background, where they came from, where they migrated to.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

So my my teta, my maternal grandmother, she's very sweet. She has like an angelic voice and she's very soft-spoken. Um, her family is from the old city. We still have um our family home there. Uh it's called Zavia Bkariya, which is really cool. That's right. I got to see my cousin in um August of 2023, just before everything happened in Gaza. So all of her like aunts and uncles and cousins stayed in the old city, but her dad and mom had actually left for Syria. Um, and so my grandmother grew up in Syria. So my mom's childhood consisted of her going to Ahmed to visit her dad's family, who had fled to Jordan. They became refugees in Jordan, and going to Syria to see my grandmother's family. And so my aunt, you know, my aunts are still there.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Okay, that totally checks out because every time I used to see your grandmother, I'm like, she reminds me of like a Syrian little Lebanese grandmother. You know, Lebanese and Syrian grandmothers, they dress differently than I feel like Palestinian. They do their hair a little bit fluffier.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Yeah.

unknown 24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

So that was Tita. So I I actually learned almost everything I know about cooking from watching her. I watched her more cook when I was younger, but I like some of my strongest memories were like going to have sleepovers with my brothers at Teta and Jutta's house and being up with Teta, sipping on like tea with milk. She was about milk, but like would give us like full caffeinated, you know, tea at like five years old. Um exactly. Like seven years old. And then just being up with her, it was it was always like the night before, like a big uh Azima or family party, you know, we would roll grape leaves together till like two o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

And I loved that. Or they would play Jim Rummy, the hand card. Still don't think I fully understand how to play it. All of the culture I got from just watching my family. It was never really something that we like we were sat down and learned about. And then Jinda, I know this is about Theta, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

We love the Sidos too, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Um during those sleepovers, Jiddah would spread out a big comforter on the floor, and me and my brothers would lay down, and everybody would just be looking up at the ceiling, listening to Jiddah tell a story. So all of the ways that I connected with Islam when I was younger were because of stories that Juddah would tell us that were in the Quran and Bible, and I I just like naturally absorbed the skill of storytelling from these interactions with my grandparents.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

So wow, that's so special. That is such a special gift to have, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

So something that I hope I can pass down to my kids. Yeah, inshallah. But um they they had it pretty rough in Jordan, um with everything that happened um during Black September, which was quote unquote the Civil War. Um, in Jordan, you know, she told me a story about how um she had had two children. One of them was my mother at the time when that war was happening, and remembers being so like afraid to leave her front door because you could get crop caught in the crossfires of the war. And so they ended up sustaining themselves for a couple of weeks through this garden that Jadh had continued to grow in their home in Jordan. I never knew that she had gone through any of this stuff until that day in 2022, where I sat them down and just got like four or five hours worth of interviews with them. And she talked about, you know, her fears and her hope for the future and what it was like coming to the United States and trying to find her community. But yeah, she's a cool woman. She doesn't get enough credit. She's known to be like very sweet. That's why I was saying I don't think she understands how much of a powerhouse she is and yeah, how much the elder women in our families shape not just their children's generation, but future generations.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yeah, and the amount of resilience she had is so clear and evident for having to go through all the things that she's had to go through, and she doesn't even realize her own strength.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

She just talks about it like it was normal. I was like in the interview, I was like, not this is not a normal. Nobody else's grandma that I grew up with, like has this war story, you know what I mean? Crossing an ocean by herself with two little kids. Um so, and then my Siddy on my dad's side, not a lot of people know this, but she's actually half Latina, she's half Brazilian. I think she's more of my personality for sure. I definitely adopted her personality between my two grandmothers. She will tell you like it is, she has no filter whatsoever. She is so resilient. She met my grandfather in Brazil. They moved when my dad and my uncle were young to the United States. She only spoke Portuguese. Wow. Yep. And so when she came here, she learned English and she learned Arabic. She learned Arabic at 23 years old. So this is my hope. That's amazing. This is the hope that I'm holding on to of like if at 22 with two little kids, I can learn it at 34.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yes, you can. Channel, channel your city. Yeah, you can do it.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Yeah. She is a full-fledged Latina grandma. For as Arab as she also is, and as Arab as my dad's upbringing was, I'll see content from Latina influencers and Latina magazines talking about their grandmothers. And I'm like, that's my city. I think the fact that we call her city, like kind of uses that like connection in my dream where I'm like, no, actually, my grandma is like full Latina, the way that she behaves, the way that she talks, the way that she acts, the things that she cooks, like her famous dishes were lice and beans and oxtail and um pastels, which are empanadas. Um her and my dad, their main language is Portuguese together. So yeah, yeah, but she really tries to like embrace the Arab side and like honor it, you know. So she's she's really cool. I'm so lucky and grateful to have both of them in my life. I know like how rare it is to be 34 years old with my own children and still have, thank god, healthy grandmothers and like they are still here and they get to now be great-grandmothers to my children. My teta's friends are just now starting to have grandkids, and she has grandkids and great-grandkids, which is really cool. MashaAllah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Inshallah, God keeps you guys close and healthy and always together. Was there any traditions your city's in your tetah taught you that you really want to practice with your own kids?

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Yes. Well, I cook with my boys, breaking that generational.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Yeah, definitely. You gotta get them to cook and clean for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

Um, my husband cleans, so they learn to clean from him and and they cook with me. Actually, in terms of traditions, I owe a lot of that to my mom. Ever since we were little, she always made a big deal done and aid and getting the family together. She would come to our school every year with and canafe and levne sandwiches and zaat and just teach my whole grade once a year about who we are. And that's something that I have now decided to continue doing. I did it actually before I had kids for schools, and now that I have kids, I'm doing it for our schools, which is really cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah, that makes such a big impact. I was I was the only non-Itan in my entire school. Not even just like Arab. I was the only non-Itan in the whole school. And my mom would come in with her hijab and everything and give little klawa pieces and a knafa pieces and teach about Reed and Ramadan. It made a huge impact on me. I don't know how much it impacted, you know, the uh mice classmates, but it did make a huge impact on myself. So work that you're doing for your kids' school, I'm sure, is making a huge impact on them as well.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Yeah, I hope so. I I will say I do think it did make, I don't know that I mean like a deep impact, but it definitely like up until I was in college, if I would see, you know, somebody that I went to like elementary school with, they would be like, How's your mom doing? I still love that cheese. She would bring like Syrian cheese with the black all they talked about. I still love that cheese. I look for it all the time. I'm like, you're not gonna find it, you gotta go to Patterson.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Yeah, listen, food, food is a way really of connecting people. And so if that's the thing that they remembered and that's the thing that sparked their interest, let it be. And in shall like they could find a Palestinian cookbook out there. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Um exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

But so you said how you see yourself within your cities, your cities spark and fieriness, and then your tethers, resilience, and storytelling. Um, is there a way that you kind of see their them in the way that you move through challenges and in your life?

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Yeah, I think the way I approach things is my way of honoring them. I have a very low threshold for things that were like forced upon them by the community to deal with that I have like a no tolerance level for. And so every time I make a decision or I do something with my kids or I hold a very strong boundary, I I think of them. Like I also see them learning from me. Like, if that doesn't sound like the most egotistical thing that I could ever say.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

No, no, no, no. It's because they probably also thought the same thing, but they didn't know how to maybe go about implementing it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

They were just taught to like absorb a lot of pain and trauma and like bullshit from other people. And I have these conversations with them, right, about things that are like not okay. Um, and like behaviors or um, you know, dynamics that are just they're not the healthiest that we have been taught to just deal with, right? Um, and just like grin and bear it, like put a smile on, pretend like everything is fine. And it's almost like going through therapy sessions together. Like we just get out and they understand. Like, I have very firm and particular boundaries with my family and you know, especially my kids, that like took a minute for people to understand like why they were there. I see it resonating with them and I see their behaviors, their thoughts changing a little bit for the better, right? I see them honoring themselves almost and understanding that they they can respect themselves and also put up their own boundaries and change the way that they, you know, that they see things and that they're allowed to put themselves first now. Because for the women in our our lineage, a lot of them were kind of taught that everybody comes before the mom and they don't have to hold that anymore. They or can hold it and simultaneously also care for themselves and their well-being and their happiness as well. It matters, you know?

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Mm-hmm. And that's actually an interesting note because through doing these episodes, some of my guests, they have these really interesting stories about their grandfathers, and they have to dig a little bit deeper to find a story that their grandmother shared with them. And I just can't help but think it's because the grandmother was in the background cooking the food or cleaning the house, and the grandfather got to share all these stories with their grandkids or their kids because it's like the grandmother maybe was too busy doing other things that no one else was doing, or maybe didn't see herself as important enough to even share, or given the space to even share. That's just such an interesting topic. What role do you think Palestinian women, especially our grandmothers and mothers, play in the resilience? I just made a video on that today.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

You did? No. Yeah. Um I think we play the whole role. I a hundred percent agree. I think that like revolution is in our blood, it's in our body, it lives in our wombs, it becomes our children. It is in the Palestinians that we raise to be a part of the next generation, be they, you know, men or women. Um I there was a video that came out yesterday from um a mother in Gaza. She lost her daughter and her husband, and her other son was severely injured. It looked like he had maybe lost a limb. And she just looked straight into the camera, and you could tell that there were like tears in her eyes, but she wouldn't let them drop. Like she kept swallowing them. And she just looked into the camera and she was like, if you think that this makes us afraid, she pulled her son over and she was like, I will raise this child to be the hero. I will raise him to avenge his father, to avenge his sister. You do not scare us. And like in that moment, I was like, holy shit, this world has so severely underestimated the power of a Palestinian mother. And I think that sometimes we underestimate ourselves. And I've learned this, and I've learned how to vocalize this from Native influencers here in Turtle Island, which as people know is the occupied United States and Canada. The way that they speak of having children, um, and the way that it is seen as a revolutionary act in their community spaces is something that I hope that all of us can understand. What an act of revolution it is to have children of a bloodline that the entire imperial world is trying to erase right now. When you can acknowledge that power and then step into it if you already have kids as a Palestinian mom, if you want kids, if you're trying to have kids. I wish for everybody whatever they want. You know, you don't have to have children to like experience this. But just the concept of like a Palestinian woman is so powerful that I I think it can literally be like earth shattering and shifting all at the same time if we can all like collectively step into that power together. Because that's where I get everything from. Days that are really hard where I can't like keep it together. I think back about like every mother who has ever raised somebody that is a part of the revolution, the resistance that has resilience in them. That's where I snap myself out of whatever I'm feeling and just remind myself that existing on this planet as that identity and continuing another generation of Palestinians is one of the most powerful acts of resistance.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Yeah, it's totally a form of resistance. And I know there's so many other Arabs that make jokes like Palestinians, they always have like 10 kids. Well, yeah, because we're constantly trying to be erased. So this is our way of existing and showing that we are here and we are going to stay. I know. Being an outspoken advocate can come with challenges, especially when discussing full scene in the media. How do you navigate the pushback and continue on with the work that you do?

SPEAKER_02 38:32

I don't care. I at some point you have to get to a place where I I always say, you know what you know, and there's nothing that anybody can say that can gaslight you into thinking that you are wrong in the knowledge that like lives in our bodies, in our DNA that has been passed down. Whether it's been passed down vocally or in written form, it's always still passed down through our DNA. These stories live within us, even if we haven't experienced them ourselves. I lean into that all the time, especially when it comes to battling media. Also, propaganda is very cyclical, it's very lazy. And so when you just research a little bit and learn about propaganda tactics that have been used to dehumanize other groups of people, it's the same formula, just recycled over and over and over again. And I think that Palestinians, we have figured out a way to throw a wrench into that cycle. That's why narrative has shifted. And that's why people are starting to acknowledge and see the connection between oppression everywhere and oppression in Palestine. I think getting to a place of like, I don't care what anybody has to say about anything that I have to say that I know is the truth, because my family stories and our oral history is just as valid as some article in the New York Times, which now everybody can recognize is wrong and fake and make fun. Um you just find that validation in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Yeah. And then like when the whole argument is Palestine never existed, and we have grandparents older than the NECVA, it's kind of hard to refute or go back on that point. How are you going to argue against my own family history?

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Is there a line that you're ever afraid to cross? Like, is there even an existence of a line?

SPEAKER_02 40:14

I don't think so. I think if you had asked me in 2021, uh there was definitely, I don't know exactly what it was, but there was definitely a line. I was definitely holding back a little bit um for other people's comfort. And then I I think I got to a point where I was like, I quit my job, I lost all my friends. People hate me, they're afraid of us. So, like, what else is there to lose? Right? I've lost the money, I've lost the the community. It is what it is. So just do it. Now, even if there's the slightest hint of me feeling nervous or like I have to hold back something, every time without fail, there will be a video from Gaza that pops up on my feed, and it it's so enraging that I get mad at myself where I'm like, How dare you think that you deserve any semblance of comfort or safety and won't say what needs to be said for people to hear when this is what they're living through?

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yeah, we can deal with a little bit of uncomfortability while they are literally sacrificing their lives. Yeah. How do you then go about managing burnout, emotional burnout, um, when doing the work that you're doing?

SPEAKER_02 41:24

But I'm shaking my head no. Um, there is right now for me, there is no managing it. I don't know how to. I have no advice for people who are trying like I I'm willing to sacrifice my own well-being and mental health, which I know is not the greatest, to do what needs to be done. I think a lot of that is driven by like diaspora guilt. Every once in a while, I'll grab dinner with a a friend or have a like invigorating phone call with someone who I know is very supportive of the work that I'm doing and doing, you know, their own portion of the legwork that needs to be done from outside of the community that like helps lift my spirit and give me strength again. I'm grateful that I have a very supportive family. My parents, my brothers, my husband is the most supportive. But there was definitely a time period where I lost myself for a while and I wasn't the best like present parent for my kids. I think that's why I'm really emotional about everything that's resurfacing in Gaza. I'm and that this isn't even a speck of comparison to what they're going through, but I was like, oh my God, I have to mentally prepare myself again to see these videos of our children on hospital floors without looking lifeless and to go down that hole again of being in that space 24-7 and figuring out how to translate it to people so that they don't look away. And it made me nauseous. I will never say that I think that we all deserve to have good mental health while this is happening. Like I'm never gonna be that type of person. I will never suggest that somebody look away. I will never tell you that I'm gonna look away for mental health or take a break. If you ever see me take a break, it's not for my mental health.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

For me, it's for my kids because I'm like, I could be devastated within myself, right? Yesterday night after we put my kids to sleep. My husband came in and he's like, What's wrong? Are you okay? He thought I wasn't feeling good. And I was like, No, I'm I'm just literally distraught over the videos that we're seeing. I was with my kids all day, so I was buttoned up. And that's kind of the line that I I don't know, try to find with my kids is because I just don't want them seeing me cry. I think it's totally healthy to show your kids your your emotion and then to explain why. So I let them get a glimpse of things, but I can feel these emotions. But for my kids, I just don't always want to be seen as like this distraught mother that they have.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Absolutely. And I same thing, I when they were at school was when I could feel these things and and make this content. But then when they're home and in the mornings before school drop off, like I am on as a mom. Like that that's my line now. I didn't realize that I didn't have that line in the beginning of all of this and that doing them a disservice, I like I was just going through the motions. I was a zombie. And now I am making a very conscious effort to be present for them and to be joyful for them while also still having conversations about what's happening back home.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

What are some moments that when you have them, you feel reaffirmed within the work that you do of like, yep, I'm on the right path?

SPEAKER_02 44:22

When my oldest, my five-year-old, will out of nowhere just randomly be like, How much longer till we can move to Palestine? So cute. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Like, I think about that.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Like so, and then I'm like, okay, let's make sure that you're still like tethered to life here. You know, no, he's packing a suitcase already. He's ready. He's ready. So they'll be like, Can we bring the fish? Stella, Stella's our dog. Stella's coming with us. How do we bring the how do we bring the fish on the airplane? Also thought about he's right. I've never seen anybody bring a fish on airplanes. So funny. And he asks, he's like, Can we bring all our stuff? Like, yeah, we bring whatever you want. And so it just reminds me that things are they're getting through to them. There's a complex that has like a Starbucks and other stores in it. I can't even pull into the parking lot without him being like, Why are we here? We can't go to Starbucks. It's hurting Palestine. I'm like, keep chill. I'm just picking up our lunch from the place next door. It's a reminder that they are absorbing everything that I say. So I do have to be mindful of my words and the tone that I present things to them, but it's also a good reminder that, like, it's, you know, they are absorbing it at the end of the day. Yeah. Are conscious of things that other kids their age are not conscious of. That other kids their age whose parents are still not even conscious of it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

No, but it creates for a world in the future where there's going to be so much more empathy and change, inshallah. Um, this is also one of the roles of the Palestinian woman, isn't just to birth these children, but to also raise them with a strong Palestinian identity, to be strong and proud and go out in the world and advocate for yourself. So I love that your five-year-old is already doing that.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Yeah. He even the way that he talks about the earth, we we've been teaching him, we don't say certain words in our house. He does not hear the word Israel, he does not hear the word Zionist. We just focus on what it means to be Palestinian and who Palestinians are for this world. And so he has learned that as indigenous people, we care for land and we protect the earth. He'll freak out if he sees trash on the side of the road while I'm driving and like ask to stop and pull over so he can pick it up. And he gets so upset when he sees other people disrespecting the earth. Last spring, when we were, you know, building our garden, we found a bumblebee, like the fuzzy ones that had died. We found it on the ground. And he held a burial for like a bumblebee. So connection to the earth. You know what I mean? To see it so young, um, and to see the actions that it translates to physically is a really, really cool thing to see. And I'm really honored that I get to experience childhood all over again in this lens through them.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Yeah. Yeah, that's one of my favorite parts of being a parent as well. So before we wrap up, what is next for you? Can you share what's on the horizon for you and where can everyone follow along and support you?

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Yeah. So I'm still gonna be on social platforms. You can just search my name, Janan Matari. Um, I'm gonna do my best to keep there, but I'm also gonna expand more into YouTube content. But um, I do have a children's book will be released. Remember that story I told you about the garden that sustained my grandparents in Jordan? Yeah. Yeah. So that was it's been like a three-year project of having that interview, discovering this realization of like, this is why my grandfather is so attached to his garden and turning it into something tangible that's off the internet, you know, is my family history, like in actual paper form. I did that over the last three years I've been working with it.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

On it, yep. Yeah, I love that. Published through Interlink Publishing, which is the only Palestinian publishing house in the United States. It was written by me, a Palestinian author, illustrated by an incredible Palestinian artist. Her name is Aya Ganemah. So it's actually the first book in country that is written by a Palestinian, illustrated by a Palestinian, published by a Palestinian publishing house, and um about a Palestinian story.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

Wow. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Well, hopefully I can actually show the world this next week. But um officially, like the hard launch date is August 12th, 2025.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

So wow, that's so exciting.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

I'm really I'm so excited to put it out into the world. And it's a it's an introduction into indigenous connection to land, but also an introduction into the NACBA for kids ages three to eight because I realized that I didn't understand how to start that conversation with my own children. And so kind of like with Zaytune, there are a hole that needed to be closed, and I decided to close it myself.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

Yeah, it's clear how much your grandparents have shaped who you are today and the impact that they've had on your life. And yeah, I'm so glad that you've been able to kind of channel that to give other parents a way to open up those conversations and share with their kids as well. I'm so excited and I'll definitely be on the lookout. So, looking back at everything we've talked about today, if your data or your city or both of them were here with us drinking their Shay and sharing in on our conversation, what do you think they would be most proud of?

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Good question.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

I think that they would be proud that, again, for all the obstacles that are set up for Palestinians in this world and particularly in this country, that I found a way to keep our culture and our traditions alive and strong and like instill that pride into myself and into my kids. Because I think that there was a little bit of a fear that that would be lost because they were never, again, for safety purposes, they were never really allowed to share that pride with the world. So I think they'd be proud of that.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Yeah, I'm sure they are. I'm sure they are, and I'm sure seeing your your kids, like their great grandkids, kind of like really re-emphasizes that as well.

unknown 50:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Jinan, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and your City's stories as well. Your work is so impactful, and we're so excited for everything that you have planned and show. Thank you. This was really beautiful. And I know that your your City is leading you through these podcasts. Oh, okay. Now I'm gonna cry for the next 30 minutes. No, but seriously, thank you so much. And please send my Thank you for joining us for this powerful episode of Sidhi's stories. I hope you felt the strength, resilience, and beauty in Janan's words. How storytelling is not just an act of resistance, but a form of healing and legacy. To keep up with Janan's work, you can follow her on Instagram at Janan Mattori. Her new children's book, Everything Grows in Jinto's Garden, is available for pre-order now. I'll put all the links in the show notes down below. This is the last week to submit your voicemails to Sitti for our upcoming season finale. You can share your own Citi stories with us at sitisstories.com and be a part of this beautiful collective stories. Until next time, stay rooted, stay resilient, and keep sharing your sitti stories. Masalama,